WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 Hello, Lawrence. 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.000 Hello, Walter. 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:06.000 We are old friends. 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:08.000 Yeah, we have been friends for years. 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:10.000 Yeah, for four years. 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.000 So, tell us a little bit about yourself. 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:18.000 Yeah, thanks for having this opportunity to have this short interview with Walter. 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:20.000 So, I'm Lawrence. 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:26.000 Yeah, I have multiple hats and I have a long career trajectory. 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:37.000 I came to the U.S. very young, in 2008, starting at very hardcore majors like electrical engineering and computer science. 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:41.000 After that, I started working in the tech industry. 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.000 I have three employers. 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:54.000 I crossed out from the manufacturing company called Cummins, which is doing the world's top one diesel engine manufacturer. 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:57.000 Later on, in Microsoft and Airbnb. 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:01.000 That's kind of my major career journey. 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:09.000 Then, later on, I pivoted to venture capitalist and working for a fund called IC. 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.000 Now, it's a lot of venture. 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:15.000 So, yeah, starting my investor career. 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:22.000 Now, I have a new career, which is super connector number two for Harry. 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:33.000 I'm trying to support and build the agent social network and democratize all the social media, not for humans, but for agents as well. 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:36.000 Yeah, that's really quick about my background. 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.000 Okay, that's almost everything. 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.000 So, what else? 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:45.000 I think that one minute thing is already enough as a video profile. 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.000 So, what do you want to talk more? 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.000 Yeah, sure. 00:01:49.000 --> 00:02:05.000 I want to talk about trying to highlight why I'm trying to quit my previous career and turn to VC and how I learned from the VC journey. 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:12.000 So, in 2024, I feel like I can see the tipping points. 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.000 At that time, there's Anthropic. 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.000 There's open AI already very promising. 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:24.000 They kind of come out, innovate a lot of great models. 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:39.000 I feel at that time I want to kind of move more close towards early stage AI, trying to experience the journey from zero to one instead of working for a more mature but very chilled Airbnb. 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:40.000 Airbnb is a great company. 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:48.000 I never had bad words about it, but I feel the embracing AI is kind of slow. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:54.000 So, that's why I kind of quit the job and jumped into early stage AI. 00:02:54.000 --> 00:03:03.000 But as you know, early stage AI basically had to track builder to build AI or investor to invest AI. 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:09.000 Becoming a builder is a big commitment. 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:11.000 It takes longer energy and time. 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.000 You need to find the right idea, try to find the right team. 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:18.000 So, rather than doing that, I'm saying, hey, why not to become an investor? 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:32.000 I kind of have a good platform to kind of keep a great eye on the frontier AI, how it evolves, and also can support the great team, the talent founders I admire. 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:38.000 And to support them, not only give them money, but also the network resources. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:44.000 So, that's why I think that's the main kind of motivation, becoming an investor. 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:50.000 But after that, the journey went well. 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.000 Really quick about the fund I'm working for. 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:56.000 So, Lama Ventures is an early stage AI fund based in Bali. 00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:04.000 It has 900 million AUM, so 300 direct, 600 investing as false. 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:08.000 So, their investment thesis is everything about AI. 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.000 So, I'm lucky enough to kind of invest Hiree. 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.000 Water is on the side. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:18.000 To invest Hiree last year as a leading investor. 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:22.000 Now, we are kind of building a great connection relationship. 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:33.000 I do see how Hiree kind of grow and Hiree pivot toward more like an agent or AI native social network. 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.000 And this is a great thing. 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:38.000 So, I think this is very meaningful. 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:45.000 Like, you know, not only for a founder itself, but in the future, this is definitely matched to the vision I have. 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.000 In the future, it will have a network that builds for agents. 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:54.000 Yeah, so, that's covered a lot. 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.000 What else do you want to... 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.000 So, when you come to USC, were you in Seattle? 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:02.000 No, I was in Ohio. 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.000 So, I went to Ohio State. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.000 The Backeye School. 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.000 And you went to UW. 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:14.000 Yeah, so, I went to UW to pursue MBA while I'm working for Microsoft. 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.000 At that time, I'm being promoted to PM leadership. 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:21.000 So, I got the, you know, reimbursement covered. 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:23.000 That's a benefit from Microsoft. 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:25.000 Yeah, but I do... 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:31.000 Before I come to the Valley, I actually work and live in Seattle for almost eight, nine years. 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:40.000 So, I come to the Bay Area in late 2023, early 2024. 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.000 So, pretty much new to the Valley. 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:48.000 But I feel this is the right place for all the founders and the investors. 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.000 Because this is more... 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:54.000 I think this is the world AI-centric place. 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.000 All the innovation, all the great founders are here. 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:03.000 So, that's why OpenAI and Anthropic were born here. 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.000 So, how was the feeling then in 2023? 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.000 You move here in 2023 or 2024? 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.000 Late 2023. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:14.000 I pay out-of-pocket because Airbnb won't pay the relocation. 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:18.000 Okay, so, basically, you were still working for Airbnb as a product manager. 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:19.000 Yes. 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:23.000 But you choose to relocate to San Francisco. 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:24.000 Yes. 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:27.000 I feel... 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.000 I think I kind of explained. 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:37.000 Airbnb is great, but I want to move more close to the AI-centric and the most innovative place, which is the Valley. 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:39.000 So, how was it then? 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:43.000 Because I was in San Francisco in 2022. 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.000 And then I moved to Canada. 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.000 And in 2022, it was not that good. 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.000 So, everybody was living to Arizona. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:58.000 Also, our company moved to Arizona and Austin. 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:06.000 And I still remember Twitter's CTO was stabbed in the building. 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:09.000 Under the building, that building is where my co-founder was living. 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:10.000 Right. 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:12.000 So, that was in 2022. 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:20.000 And all of a sudden, I feel like San Francisco right now is really great, clean, safe. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:21.000 Agree. 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.000 So, how was it in late 2023? 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.000 Yeah, I think there's a lot of changes. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:39.000 I think at that time, some events happened in the city. 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:45.000 And also, I think China's president was visiting ASEF at that time. 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.000 And then everything became clean. 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.000 Yeah, I think everything became clean. 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:56.000 And also, another hypothesis I have here is the more high-profile talents are moving here. 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:08.000 As you can tell, more than 50% of the employees and also three-fourths of the unserviceable employees are leaving the city. 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.000 So, now the city has high talent density. 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:20.000 So, that's why the city government is trying to make it a cleaner and safer place for those people to work. 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:23.000 And since you came, it was already very clean. 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:24.000 Yes, I believe so. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.000 Okay, that's sad. 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:42.000 And since you've been a VC for almost two years, I feel like you have made a lot of connections with everybody. 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.000 Right. I hope so. 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.000 And a lot of investments. 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:52.000 Okay, apart from us, why did you invest in us? 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:57.000 Yeah, so I think it's all about conviction. 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:02.000 Because I think I started to know you from a friend referral. 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:07.000 So, I got the opportunity to know you, to grab coffee, to have lunch or dinner with you. 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:15.000 Kind of know your personality and understand how your past career trajectory. 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:18.000 So, you're a serial entrepreneur. 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:23.000 I know your peak time, your prime time. 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:29.000 I remember, correct me if I'm wrong, I remember you raised like $50 million at that time for your previous company. 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:30.000 Oh, yeah. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:35.000 And there's a lot of billboards in Highway 101. 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:36.000 That's what's stunning. 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:41.000 And also, I feel like you're also very dedicated. 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:45.000 And also, you're always thinking in front of the trend. 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:51.000 So, at that time, you're already a strong advocate, like no UI. 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:54.000 AI will bring no UI services to us. 00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:02.000 I think before the pivot, you were doing a blue-collar recruiting platform, especially for caregivers. 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:03.000 Yeah. 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.000 At that time, you already embraced a new concept. 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.000 Hey, why I need the app? 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:08.000 Why I need the SaaS? 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:19.000 As long as I have a way to communicate with the agent through the existing channels, through emails, through phone calls, through text, you're able to get the service. 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:24.000 Not necessarily you need to build a web app or a mobile app. 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:28.000 So, that's kind of out of the box. 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:34.000 I do feel AI will bring that innovation kind of paradigm shift. 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:40.000 So, that's why I'm a strong supporter for you. 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:43.000 And also, I'm ending up with investment. 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:49.000 I think this is also a great way for me to see the founder profile, like you. 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:53.000 Now, you have a second – it's not your second. 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:55.000 I think you have another pivot. 00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:06.000 Instead of building the blue-collar recruiting platform, now you're embracing agentic network, social network. 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:10.000 You're saying everyone will have an agent. 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:13.000 The agents will form its own network. 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:23.000 And also, all the social media contents in that network not only belong to humans, but also digest and read by the agents. 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:29.000 Which has shaped the future vision of the social network. 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.000 I believe it must have in the future. 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:47.000 So, that's why, according to now what you're doing, I think this is a great way how I see a founder kind of explore the current situation and also moving towards the future and be agile, be adaptive to the future. 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:53.000 And also, always beyond the frontier of AI innovation. 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:54.000 Thank you. 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.000 I think I've betrayed the UI recently. 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:02.000 Now, I believe the UI can be everywhere. 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:09.000 Yeah, last year, we basically started that centralized AI agent for recruiting in May. 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:14.000 And we launched – we have internal testing. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:18.000 We launched Splendor, almost one poker. 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:24.000 You can use a conversational X for the caregivers to find jobs. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:32.000 Because we think from the recruiting background, some industry with high turnover would be easier to launch. 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:35.000 And that was centralized AI. 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:40.000 But after OpenCloud, I feel like everybody will have their personal agents. 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:47.000 So, we don't need to be that personal agent. 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:56.000 So, we give up acquiring users to use our conversational X, trying to pivot to do that product for the agents. 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:00.000 In the beginning, it was for OpenCloud and CodeX Cloud Code. 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.000 But recently, I think my ideas changed too. 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:11.000 I think after Fable come out, the original bet was Cloud or OpenAI. 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:16.000 The CodeX might be from coding agent to be a personal agent. 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:17.000 Right. 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:22.000 But with Fable 5, you can use two hours to build a personal agent. 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:27.000 So, that market would be very fragmented. 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:31.000 And there will not be one big company controlling that. 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:40.000 So, I'm back to every company that can build their own vertical personal agent because it's so cheap and easy to build. 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:41.000 100%. 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:48.000 And because of building UI, apps, website, everything is getting so cheap and easy. 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.000 Yeah. 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:54.000 And it's definitely more user-friendly. 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:59.000 So, now I'm into the UI type. 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.000 I no longer belong to no UI. 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.000 But I want to add one point. 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:13.000 You have the hypothesis at that time that Cloud Code, CodeX will be the main major entry point engaged with the Internet. 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:25.000 So, my observation, from my anecdotal opinion or experiences, I do use less web app or desktop or even GitHub. 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:28.000 I still do web coding and we explore something together. 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:33.000 Most of the time, I won't open GitHub unless there's something I need to prove. 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.000 But all the things go to Cloud Code or CodeX. 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.000 I think that validates our hypothesis. 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:50.000 So, that's why you're instead of 100% betraying your goal, but you have an open mind to embrace a new entry point. 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:56.000 We stand on the shoulder of the giants. 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:05.000 So, I don't think it's a betrayal of UI, but you know at what time you make the right decision to leverage the network. 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:06.000 Right. 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:11.000 Now, I believe that with AI, everyone can be connected easily. 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:19.000 However, the hard part, even though the AI can introduce a person, maybe on paper it's 100% match. 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:20.000 Right. 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:25.000 But it's still hard for two persons to meet. 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.000 So, we want to introduce the human connectors. 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:30.000 Human super connector. 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.000 Yeah, to network. 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:34.000 And I was trying to be the number one. 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:35.000 I've tried. 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:40.000 I think I already helped a company raise a fund and helped some companies get clients. 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.000 And now we're expanding to number two. 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.000 Hopefully, I can be a good super connector number two. 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.000 Yeah, the idea is we will work in public. 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:53.000 We will record every possible deals we made. 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:54.000 Yeah. 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.000 We helped some companies raise funds. 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.000 We helped some people find jobs. 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:02.000 We helped some companies sell their products. 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:11.000 We will record that in public because I feel like there was a lot of misinformation before. 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:12.000 Yeah. 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:18.000 So, the people cannot be freely moved between companies. 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.000 But with AI, everything will be public. 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:22.000 Right. 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:30.000 So, people and people's cooperation can be formed in a few seconds, in a few minutes. 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.000 But everything should be open. 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:35.000 The information should be enough. 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:42.000 And even though there should be some human in between to show that, okay, I sponsored this person. 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.000 I think he's a good guy. 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:44.000 Yeah. 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.000 So, I think you should connect. 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:53.000 Because at the end of the day, maybe the trust itself is decentralized. 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:55.000 It's not centralized. 00:16:55.000 --> 00:17:03.000 It's very hard to decentralize because trust means there's a risk of I don't trust you anymore. 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.000 Right. 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:07.000 But if it's centralized, there's no risk. 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.000 I think that's the foundation of people connection, right? 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:13.000 People feel trust. 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.000 People feel safe. 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.000 Then people can social meaningful in that way. 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:28.000 And also, I pretty much resonate a lot with my LinkedIn inbox being swarmed and being spammed by all the messages. 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:34.000 I told you almost every day I have a couple hundred messages I won't read. 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.000 Most of them are junk, like BD messages. 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:44.000 I feel like I do need a more highly selected social goal. 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:53.000 For example, just what I mentioned, I need someone to make sure this is a real guy and has a real social goal. 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.000 And I definitely can have value. 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:02.000 Instead of just reading those spam messages and figuring out which one I should contact. 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:08.000 And also, even I want to talk to this guy, I'm not even sure this is AI or it's a fake person or not. 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:13.000 And also, if you are in person, that's additional cost to verify. 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:18.000 You want to invest the time or drive a certain long hour to meet that guy. 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.000 So the traffic here is horrible. 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:31.000 So that's why I do feel if you have a connector, for example, if I don't know Walter, but I got introduced or Walter got introduced to me or I got introduced to him. 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:37.000 I feel by nature we will have built a certain high level trust. 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:45.000 And also we know what we are going to talk and we know what would be the topics on top of our mind. 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.000 And that would be efficient and be cleaner, be nice. 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:53.000 I think today AI writes a lot of things. 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.000 So as a human, if I read those things, I'm already loose. 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.000 Because they use AI to write it, but I invest my time to read it. 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.000 So I should use my AI to also read it. 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.000 Totally. 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:11.000 Yeah, before we had this interview, we had a short discussion like, hey, why not we have a short form video in hiring network? 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:23.000 But I've been persuaded by Walter, since AI agents or AI can read, it makes no difference like it's hour long video or it's like 10 minutes video. 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:26.000 I think they can digest the information faster. 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:35.000 I do think it's great friction to human, but if we are endorsing not only for AI, not only for human, but this is a great platform. 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:42.000 You are not necessarily read all the video or all the talk we had, but AI will summarize the core part for you. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:46.000 But if you want to dive into the nitty gritty detail, you can also read that. 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.000 This is very, very cool. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.000 And also in the future we may have short form as well, right? 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.000 Yeah. 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:53.000 In the platform. 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.000 We will have the part where human can read. 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.000 But I feel like human will... 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.000 How do you rely on agent? 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:05.000 Yeah, human will spend less time to do all these things. 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.000 100%. 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:11.000 But the video is only the proof that to human we invest time. 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:20.000 So this message is worth more even for the agent to read. 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.000 Okay. 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.000 That's part of us. 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:25.000 So that's why you will be our number two connector. 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:26.000 Right. 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.000 100%. 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:32.000 I love what you are building and this is definitely how I envision the future. 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.000 I want to be part of it. 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:35.000 Okay. 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.000 So apart from us, what else did you invest in? 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:39.000 Yeah. 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:49.000 So last year mainly a lot of B2B vertical agents, but there's also a very similar one to the previous idea you have. 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:50.000 It's Ditto AI. 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.000 That is like no UI campus dating. 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.000 It's very hot in the valley. 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:59.000 I'm just trying to mention it. 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.000 And also there's a lot of B2B AI agents we are also investing. 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:04.000 For example, Mage AI. 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:11.000 They are building AI data engineer to manage all the data pipeline work, all the dirty data works. 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:13.000 That is pretty well. 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:22.000 And also we invested like Kotter, which is a construction agent to help come up with the most accurate estimation. 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:32.000 I think in general, as long as foundation model won't touch, it has the domain knowledge and the proprietary data. 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.000 It has the industry barrier. 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:40.000 I think it takes longer time for foundation model to figure out to roll out there. 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.000 So I still feel there's opportunity in those sectors. 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:53.000 But in general, 2C is different, but you need to think ahead of the growth roadmap of the foundation model. 00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:02.000 So that's why I think come back to HireAid, not against the track, but instead of building something towards the same direction. 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:15.000 I think this is if I give one tip for a startup or doing 2C, think about to leverage the AI network or foundation model instead of to do something against it. 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.000 Okay, so this part is more about you. 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:29.000 Okay, and because you were in the investor role, so you have good connection with other investors. 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:41.000 Yeah, so I'm also actively kind of social, trying to have the other investors, VCs on board to the HireAid network. 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:51.000 Now we are on board Lama, for example, for the startup founder, they can easily pitch through Klee, just basically in nature language, talk to the Lama agent. 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:55.000 And now Lama agent will dispatch all the information to their internal... 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.000 That's not about us. 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.000 You know a lot of people in the investor's role. 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.000 Right. 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:15.000 And welcome all the founders to talk with you. 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:21.000 Yeah, so again, we are trying to build the network. 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:27.000 I think you already mentioned there's like by nature, there's three kind of use cases already, right? 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:29.000 So find the prospective leads. 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:30.000 Perfect. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:44.000 So Lawrence, how was your experience of the last two years venture capitalist? 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:48.000 How's the feeling compared to the product manager before? 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:58.000 Yeah, I feel like, yeah, so back to my past experiences as a venture capitalist investor, I think I'm very hustle. 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.000 You know, I'm kind of a builder turned to VC, right? 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:02.000 Turned from PM background. 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:07.000 I'm not like professional finance or VC career. 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:18.000 So I spend a lot of time to building my own network, to hustle, to social, to attend all the events or trying to do both in person or virtual coffee chat. 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:22.000 That's very typical investor life in the Valley. 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:30.000 I think this is also a great friction for investors or like, you know, network based roles. 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:43.000 Things you have to, you know, either spend time, spend the time to find the right ones you want to talk to or you want to make sure, you know, the conversation, the topic, the goal is meaningful for both of the party. 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:54.000 So right now, I think I'm start to, you know, I start to doing the content. 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.000 I'm trying to be the connector. 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:13.000 So that's why I'm, you know, trying to bring all the investors and startup founders, like have more kind of social exposure with them to make sure, hey, Lars can, you know, bring you, give you additional value, give you the trustful network. 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:23.000 For example, I interviewed with Harry, a founder, and if the other VC investor trying to looking for Harry, I'm the right guy, right? 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.000 So I can connect. 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:35.000 And this is also for me, like if I bring more investors on the website, on the network, I'm able to find the great founders they endorsed, they already talked to. 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:38.000 Same for, you know, the startup founders. 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:44.000 If they can reach out to the network through anyone I know, I can easily find you. 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:56.000 So I don't need to, you know, spend time to, you know, attend events or try hard for the warm referral intro where I could be ending with rabbit hole, right? 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.000 So that's a change I can see. 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:05.000 So that's why I'm trying to, you know, make sure. 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.000 So how many meetings do you need to do before? 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:22.000 Yeah, so in a typical day, like as a typical day investor, I actually need to jump in for like six or seven meetings, but not necessarily all online or in person. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:31.000 So that's why I have to find a quiet room to do the Zoom call or I have to travel, commute to coffee chat to meet the founders. 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:35.000 So that's kind of very like bad experiences for a typical day. 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.000 But now I'm more organized. 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:45.000 I think I'm able to reach out to people like, you know, for a typical day, I'm just sitting in the coffee shop. 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:51.000 I have them come to me, be more efficient, or I have all the online meeting piled up to the investors. 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.000 For sure, I want to talk to them. 00:26:53.000 --> 00:27:03.000 So how do you find those leads? By referral? By talking? 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:07.000 Yeah, that's the typical way. 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:14.000 You attend the event, you just, you know, random social with a lot of people. 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:22.000 For example, there's like, there's a chance like you're talking to a founder, and there's another chance you're talking to an investor. 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:27.000 But most of the time, you may talk to some not relevant people. 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.000 But, you know, it's good to build a connection. 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:39.000 But it costs additional effort and time to figure out where you want to invest the time for a meaningful meeting. 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:41.000 Right. So that's a friction. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:48.000 So that's why I think deal sourcing is always a bottleneck for most of the investors. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.000 But still, it's pretty easy because you are on the other side. 00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:54.000 That's getting money. 00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:02.000 So if you attend any events, it's very easy to pile up the meetings for you for the coming weeks. 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:09.000 Right. I should expose myself so people know where to find me, where to find Lawrence to pitch or schedule a meeting with me. 00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:12.000 On the other side, I can make it easier. 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:22.000 But again, if I want to be more accurate, find someone I want to talk to, it's still an effort I need to put in. 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.000 Okay. 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.000 How is your Ohio? 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:37.000 What's your major in that? 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:39.000 EE and computer science. 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.000 Okay. EE and computer science. 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:42.000 Yeah.