WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.280 So I'm here. 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:15.120 And then I can't put in my anything in this field or have or press any of these buttons. 00:00:15.120 --> 00:00:18.080 Oh, 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:28.480 Hi, people contact. This is the high people backslash content. 00:00:30.080 --> 00:00:34.080 We've been doing a lot of front end redesign. So yeah, no, hey, 00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:42.080 you're with friendly developers. So good. Appreciate that people. 00:00:45.120 --> 00:00:54.240 Okay, I'll send you the request after I got your number in there. So that's okay. 00:00:54.800 --> 00:00:59.840 That should be fine. We'll just we'll run this. And then I'll, I'll run the interview. And then 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:05.040 I'll, I'll message you if anything about it. Okay. Yeah, that'd be great. Cool. All right. 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:07.200 Okay, let's start. 00:01:10.240 --> 00:01:15.680 So, so yeah, hi, Jamie. It's great to meet you. We've just been talking for a few minutes here 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:20.480 about manuscripts. And my name is Mark. I work with work with hiree because we did a little bit 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:26.240 of an intro. But you kind of like I explained, we're really focused on connecting people, 00:01:26.240 --> 00:01:32.160 featuring new founders, featuring people that are kind of building new things, new tools, 00:01:32.160 --> 00:01:38.880 and just kind of passionate about creating and working on, you know, creating products that are 00:01:38.880 --> 00:01:45.200 going to help help other people. So you and I connected, I saw your product on Reddit. And I 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:50.000 wanted to kind of talk with you a little bit more about your product. What got you inspired about it? 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:55.920 And yeah, I'll let you take it take it from here. Great. Thanks. Thanks, Mark. And I was 00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:00.720 gravitated to much of what you guys are doing, because I think our values are very similar. So 00:02:01.440 --> 00:02:08.240 I'm a professor of health informatics at a university here in in Vancouver. And I have 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:15.040 been publishing in the scientific space for several years. And the process of publishing 00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:22.800 in academia is an arduous one for anyone who has previously done that it has a number of 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:29.200 predefined steps and is is very prescriptive and how you interact with with journals and editors. 00:02:29.200 --> 00:02:37.440 And so manuscripts was a is a tool that solved a particular pain point for me as an academic 00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:44.320 publishing in the space. And I have created it in such a way that's agnostic to the discipline 00:02:44.320 --> 00:02:51.120 or to the research area, such that it can be hopefully a useful tool to all academics that 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:58.400 are publishing. It provides a number of tools, including calendars, some productivity tools, 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:03.920 some writing tools that help streamline the process and make sure that you keep on track 00:03:04.880 --> 00:03:12.000 your submissions in various locations to various journals. It can it's can be used as a solo 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:20.240 researcher or it can be used as a research coordinator for multiple different groups that 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:25.120 you're you're keeping track of multiple submissions across many different journals. 00:03:25.440 --> 00:03:34.320 Mm hmm. And it I like to say it's like for those who have graduated beyond the spreadsheet, 00:03:34.320 --> 00:03:41.760 it's I used to keep track of all of my papers on an Excel spreadsheet. And that was certainly 00:03:41.760 --> 00:03:49.840 had its moment, had its time, had its utility. But I grew that eventually. And I I created a 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:58.800 a Mac first, you know, forward of swift forward, you know, a program that could that could at least 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:04.080 solve my issue, which was moving beyond the sort of the individual rows of a spreadsheet and helping 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:08.400 me track that in a way that integrated with reminders in a way that integrated with calendar 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.040 and and keep it all sort of within the Mac ecosystem. So 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:17.600 I'm there and you have. Yeah. Let me know if you have questions. 00:04:18.640 --> 00:04:24.000 So you're a you're a big Mac fan and then it kind of sounds like this grew out of kind of necessity 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:28.400 of your of your own personal pains when you're trying to find a better way to manage your papers 00:04:28.400 --> 00:04:35.520 and and. Yeah. Yeah. And and also a love for Mac, I would say, too. That's the other thing it grew 00:04:35.520 --> 00:04:44.560 out of. I've I've always really I've I've been an Apple user my whole life and particularly learned 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:52.000 in the era more about Swift. I had programmed a little bit of Swift before, but I had it wasn't 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:58.880 I wasn't about to learn a whole new language when I was I'm already a Python programmer in data 00:04:58.880 --> 00:05:05.520 science. And so I, you know, I provided a great opportunity for people to learn new computing 00:05:05.520 --> 00:05:12.640 languages, of which Swift was the one that I took up. And I've had a lot of both fun and success 00:05:12.640 --> 00:05:19.360 building a few different different apps in for the Mac ecosystem. What other what other types 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:26.560 of apps have you been within Mac or for Mac? These these are I have a pattern which is create tools 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:32.800 for myself and then we'll see which ones work and which ones don't work. And they usually 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:39.840 swell. They solve very, very particular niche pains for me. And so I will show those. But this 00:05:39.840 --> 00:05:50.160 is the first app that I would say is is one that that is that had the potential to be something 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:56.080 much more agnostic to what what the profession more broadly. But the other apps that I have are 00:05:56.080 --> 00:06:03.200 very are very like I track, for example, my I have a custom CRM that I use for for my just my 00:06:03.200 --> 00:06:09.520 partnership style. It's not really marketable because most people's, you know, CRM workflows 00:06:09.520 --> 00:06:14.640 are not what I do. And also there are many great CRM's on the market. I'm not looking to compete 00:06:14.640 --> 00:06:21.680 against those products in any way. So this is this first I would say this is the first app that I've 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:28.880 have that had any kind of potential to be useful to others. Yeah. All right. So that's yeah. And I 00:06:28.880 --> 00:06:34.000 think that there's a big market for that. Like, I think probably the academic space is maybe a 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:41.120 little bit underserved, would you say? Yeah, I definitely I would say that. Yes, there's a number 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:44.880 of different products that I've seen come out fairly recently that have focused on the writing 00:06:44.880 --> 00:06:51.040 space, which is really great because there's there is a sort of a lack of that. An app called Latex, 00:06:51.040 --> 00:07:00.560 for example, another app called Essays, I think, is a is a writing tool. And then there's on the 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:05.040 other side of that, there's Bookends, which is an app I love very, very much. It's a Mac first 00:07:06.080 --> 00:07:12.720 referencing software. And I love that. And Manuscripts never intended to be a referencing 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:20.320 program of any kind, mainly because I love Bookends so much. So I have purposefully found this 00:07:20.320 --> 00:07:26.240 niche space, I think, which is not writing, not referencing software, but sort of in the sort of 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:35.440 productivity space within academia, academia tech. Yeah. And it's and you've had you mentioned like 00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:40.560 your your your ideal user of this or the person that you think would see the most value are people 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:45.760 that are that are researchers that are that are teaching at that at colleges, universities and 00:07:45.760 --> 00:07:51.200 this type of thing, right? I'm not not just I mean, teaching for sure, but more importantly, 00:07:51.200 --> 00:07:55.920 it would it's a it's a tool for tracking your research side of your academic responsibilities. 00:07:57.440 --> 00:08:02.560 You make a good point that there actually that I do have thoughts in my mind of one day also 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:07.200 making a tool that could help you track your teaching. I'm working on that actually 00:08:07.760 --> 00:08:12.400 simultaneously and on my own space, and maybe that will grow into something that that I could 00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:17.360 potentially market. But it's that's that's a separate ballgame is sort of tracking all the 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:22.640 things related to your students sort of having a can. I always dream of maybe having a Canvas 00:08:22.640 --> 00:08:29.040 replacement one day for Canvas is the program that all profs use really to do grades and 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:33.920 teaching schedules and all that. A Mac first version of that would be really amazing. That's 00:08:33.920 --> 00:08:37.920 not really what manuscripts is. Manuscripts is focused more on on your research responsibilities 00:08:37.920 --> 00:08:43.040 as a as a academic, and I think it doesn't necessarily. You don't necessarily have to be 00:08:43.040 --> 00:08:48.800 an academic just to appreciate this. It could be a staff member, for example, at a research institute 00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:57.600 or a scientific organization that is publishing even in industry as well in biotech or other 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:03.600 other sectors that are have some kind of research component related to the work that 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:07.360 they do and they publish. Then that would be it would be useful tool for them. 00:09:07.920 --> 00:09:13.200 Yeah, I love that. So yeah, so really, really applicable. I think across all of all of academia 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:18.400 because there's just so much research happening. Absolutely. Yeah, totally. And increasingly more 00:09:18.400 --> 00:09:27.360 so. I mean that the the level of effort that goes into a single paper these days has greatly 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:34.400 reduced and the quality of it, I think, has improved like overall, hopefully, hopefully, 00:09:34.400 --> 00:09:40.400 but but there's still, you know, you can get out more basically now than you ever could before. 00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:46.560 And that's why manuscripts is a tool that is is useful for the current moment, too, which is that 00:09:46.560 --> 00:09:52.240 now we are more productive in in researchers. Hopefully we are getting more out of A.I. and 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.240 being able to research quicker. Doing your background literature reviews are much quicker 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:59.840 than they ever used to be. Organizing results are quicker than they ever used to be. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.960 and then the writing process as well from GenAI. 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.120 So all of that makes us more productive 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.280 in terms of what we're outputting as researchers 00:10:09.280 --> 00:10:12.700 and manuscripts is a way to track all of that output 00:10:12.700 --> 00:10:17.700 that has been expanded as thanks to AI. 00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:19.920 I love that. 00:10:19.920 --> 00:10:22.440 The, yeah, I mean, output is definitely increased 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:25.120 but then with it, I think quality, yeah, 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:27.400 but then also you have bugs and this type of thing, right? 00:10:27.400 --> 00:10:29.440 So, I mean, it's a little bit of like, it's not- 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:31.760 I think I want to maybe not necessarily backtrack 00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:32.840 because I do still believe 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.080 that overall the quality is increasing 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.480 because there is a quantity improvement. 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:41.080 Increasing quantity does eventually reach quality 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:44.800 at some point, but I do, I agree with you 00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:49.560 that actually AI has also independently opened another door 00:10:49.560 --> 00:10:53.280 to slop, so they say. 00:10:53.280 --> 00:10:56.720 So it's, and so I think there's a potential 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:01.720 to have more products available that are less of, 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:03.600 that are of less quality. 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.320 And I think that's where all the more reason 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:09.480 why tools should exist that can sort of help us 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:13.480 maybe do better in terms of our output, 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.520 you know, making the quantity reach the quality. 00:11:16.520 --> 00:11:19.160 I love that, about balancing, balancing that, yeah, 00:11:19.160 --> 00:11:21.080 and trying to mitigate some of the problems 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:22.840 that have kind of arised with this kind 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:25.000 of increased productivity. 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.080 And, you know, for being in the space, 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:29.000 there's no shortage of them. 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:34.000 The bugs that arise from moving quickly are a lot. 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.040 But I wonder whether, you know, it's really just this, 00:11:39.040 --> 00:11:41.560 and as an aside, I'm wondering whether, you know, 00:11:41.560 --> 00:11:44.320 we had the same problem sort of when we moved, 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.320 when we had another big tech innovation, 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.320 you know, web 2.0, for example, or web, you know, 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:51.960 making web development basically more accessible. 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:53.840 There's also a lot of bugs that came with that too. 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:56.920 So I don't, yes, I think AI is unique in some ways 00:11:56.920 --> 00:12:00.160 that it is bringing a particular thing going on 00:12:00.160 --> 00:12:02.360 with the quantity quality debate, 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:04.880 but it's also happened before. 00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:07.400 And I think that's all the more reason 00:12:07.400 --> 00:12:09.800 for tools like this that do help. 00:12:09.800 --> 00:12:11.000 Yeah. 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:16.000 Yeah, there is a lot of interesting, 00:12:16.040 --> 00:12:18.880 every kind of huge, I think I've heard, 00:12:18.880 --> 00:12:20.880 I've read about it in my book, intuition leaps 00:12:20.880 --> 00:12:23.360 or these big technological jump-ups, 00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:26.720 you kind of have like this balancing that happens 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:27.960 after that. 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:29.280 And then with this new productivity, 00:12:29.280 --> 00:12:30.920 people need to focus on structure, 00:12:30.920 --> 00:12:32.480 organizing their things and everything like that, 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:34.720 use that time effectively to kind of 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:37.480 keep everything in check. 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:38.480 Exactly. 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:39.680 Yeah. 00:12:39.680 --> 00:12:42.520 And then you mentioned you're in Vancouver, right? 00:12:42.520 --> 00:12:44.160 I am, yes. 00:12:44.160 --> 00:12:46.640 And how long have you been out there? 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.920 I have been in Vancouver since a number of years, 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:55.960 15 some odd years, but I'm originally from Toronto, 00:12:56.800 --> 00:13:00.040 came here to go to school and kind of just stayed. 00:13:00.040 --> 00:13:03.080 So I'm really, I'm a West Coast person at heart. 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:06.480 I think I belong much more on the West Coast 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:10.080 than I did back East, but my family's still back East. 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:12.720 So I do see them quite often, I go home often. 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:13.960 Love that, I love that. 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.200 And then how long have you been in academia? 00:13:17.520 --> 00:13:19.360 I have been in academia for almost that whole time 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:23.160 because I came out to BC to do my master's. 00:13:23.160 --> 00:13:26.040 So I went from then from a master's into a PhD. 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:28.600 And I, you know, I've taken, I took some, 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:30.120 I have non-traditional academic roots. 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:33.400 So I took a little bit of breaks in the industry, 00:13:33.400 --> 00:13:37.840 but let's say on or off for the better part of 15, 17, 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:39.440 15, 16 years. 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:40.280 Wow, a long time. 00:13:40.280 --> 00:13:42.200 So you've written a lot of papers. 00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:43.040 I have, yeah. 00:13:43.040 --> 00:13:45.560 I have 80 some odd papers. 00:13:45.560 --> 00:13:48.400 So it's quite a lot. 00:13:48.400 --> 00:13:51.200 And I, this was certainly a, 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:56.200 this app was built out of a lot of experience. 00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.520 Let me just, let me say that. 00:13:58.520 --> 00:14:00.920 Of doing it wrong and doing it right. 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:03.560 Yeah, yeah. 00:14:03.560 --> 00:14:05.800 Most great projects are, I think, 00:14:05.800 --> 00:14:09.200 come from that, come from that body of, yeah. 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:11.920 Yeah, I was, I appreciate very much people who, 00:14:13.800 --> 00:14:17.480 in a way, share their tools because it's worked for them. 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:19.560 And so now they say, okay, 00:14:19.560 --> 00:14:21.680 like I've spent a long time refining this 00:14:21.680 --> 00:14:23.880 and now I'm happy to share it. 00:14:23.880 --> 00:14:28.280 And that's very, the story of manuscripts. 00:14:28.280 --> 00:14:29.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:30.280 I love that. 00:14:30.280 --> 00:14:31.120 Yeah, it kind of tracks. 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.000 Yeah, it follows kind of that journey 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.960 or that theme, that narrative. 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:39.280 And where would you like to see manuscripts 00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:40.240 continue to grow? 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:41.960 What's kind of your vision there? 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:43.720 Yeah, good point. 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.760 I would like to see manuscripts 00:14:46.760 --> 00:14:49.520 become increasingly more agnostic 00:14:49.520 --> 00:14:54.520 while not losing its competitive edge tool as a tool. 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:00.440 So I don't want it to be complex and cumbersome. 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:02.680 I want to keep the simplicity of it. 00:15:02.680 --> 00:15:05.080 But I also want more people to be able to use it 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:06.800 if they will find it to be helpful. 00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:11.000 So it is right now agnostic to, I'd say, 00:15:11.640 --> 00:15:13.960 any scientific discipline. 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.960 But there's a lot of people not in scientific disciplines 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:21.960 that could still benefit from a tool like manuscripts 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.360 that does productivity and version tracking 00:15:26.280 --> 00:15:27.960 that are in humanities or arts 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:31.000 or other nonfiction areas. 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:36.000 And so I will work with people who wish to uptake the app 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:38.480 and wish to give me some feedback. 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:41.040 I'd be happy to have a conversation with you about that 00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:44.640 and how we can just increasingly make it more of a tool 00:15:44.640 --> 00:15:46.440 that could work for any writer 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.200 and not just specifically scientific writers. 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:50.040 I love that. 00:15:50.040 --> 00:15:52.080 So yeah, so kind of like broadening out the base 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.520 a little bit and increasing the utility 00:15:54.520 --> 00:15:57.080 to maybe a wider audience 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:59.640 and people with other expertise maybe 00:15:59.640 --> 00:16:03.200 and other types of writing could help that. 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:04.040 That's right. 00:16:04.040 --> 00:16:04.880 Yeah. 00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:06.400 Well, awesome. 00:16:06.400 --> 00:16:07.240 Yeah. 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:10.960 I don't know if there's anything else I also wanted to say 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.400 other than that, I think the integration piece of it 00:16:15.400 --> 00:16:17.360 that was one thing I wanted to mention 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:21.880 is that I have, there's two versions of the app right now. 00:16:21.880 --> 00:16:24.680 There's a version on Gumroad, 00:16:24.680 --> 00:16:27.560 which is that I've been able to integrate some of the AI 00:16:27.560 --> 00:16:32.080 that services that would not be permitted in the App Store. 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:34.680 And then there's the App Store version, which is coming. 00:16:34.680 --> 00:16:35.920 It's not yet up yet, 00:16:35.920 --> 00:16:38.280 but because I wanted to wait until the new version, 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:41.000 I wanted to wait until the next version of macOS 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.080 to make sure if things are working okay before releasing it, 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.200 but it will use exclusively foundation, 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:50.520 the foundation models that are built within macOS itself. 00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:54.880 So if you, and I don't know yet what those look like 00:16:54.880 --> 00:16:57.520 in terms of quality of AI. 00:16:57.520 --> 00:16:59.920 So currently, if you wish to, 00:16:59.920 --> 00:17:01.040 if you have an Anthropic key, 00:17:01.040 --> 00:17:03.880 if you have an OpenAI key or an OpenWriter key, 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:05.800 you can use the Gumroad edition, 00:17:05.800 --> 00:17:10.640 which will get you full feature access. 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:11.840 And then eventually, if, you know, 00:17:11.840 --> 00:17:13.600 for those who are more comfortable 00:17:14.560 --> 00:17:19.080 with the safety and security of the Mac App Store, 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.080 there will be a foundation model Mac App Store version 00:17:23.080 --> 00:17:24.320 that will be coming soon. 00:17:25.600 --> 00:17:28.640 You're gonna put it on the Mac App Store as well. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:29.720 Yes, yeah. 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:31.680 Wow, that's awesome. 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:35.000 And then that's a pretty hefty process, isn't it? 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:35.840 Yeah, it is. 00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:37.360 It's a process for sure. 00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:41.680 Mainly in that they don't let you use 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:42.840 a lot of outside tools. 00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:44.680 And so the things that I needed to cut 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:47.040 were a lot of the AI APIs 00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:50.800 that currently exist within the settings. 00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:52.360 You can add your own key, 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.120 but that had to go away for the Mac App Store. 00:17:57.560 --> 00:17:58.480 But other than that, 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:01.960 the functionality is very much the same. 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:02.800 Yeah. 00:18:03.800 --> 00:18:04.640 Interesting. 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:05.480 Okay, yeah. 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:06.320 So you do- 00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:07.240 I came across a number of people 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.480 when I first launched the app too that were, 00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:12.200 I wouldn't say skeptical, 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:16.560 but just like they prefer the security of the Mac App Store. 00:18:16.560 --> 00:18:17.760 They know it's coming from Apple. 00:18:17.760 --> 00:18:18.920 They know it's signed by the developer, 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:23.720 even though my app on Gumroad direct distribution 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.760 is also signed. 00:18:25.760 --> 00:18:27.640 This, they just prefer the Mac App Store. 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.000 So I'm just offering two different ways 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.960 to purchase the same product. 00:18:32.560 --> 00:18:36.560 And this is consistent with other developers as well. 00:18:36.560 --> 00:18:37.760 This is nothing unique. 00:18:39.320 --> 00:18:40.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:43.240 Yeah, I think so too. 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:44.160 Like just personally, 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:45.480 I prefer to use the Mac App Store, 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.120 but there's a lot of other great tools 00:18:48.120 --> 00:18:50.200 that are outside of the Mac App Store as well. 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:52.240 There are, I agree. 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:54.760 It's just a matter of how, whether you, 00:18:54.760 --> 00:18:55.600 I don't know, 00:18:55.600 --> 00:18:57.880 a new era of AI coding, I think, 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.320 has made people just a little bit more skeptical. 00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:03.000 But yes, there are a lot of great tools 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.080 that live outside the Mac App Store, 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:06.360 and that's, they precisely live outside the Mac App Store 00:19:06.360 --> 00:19:08.600 because they can't sell it in the Mac App Store, 00:19:08.600 --> 00:19:10.040 which is because they have, 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:14.800 the features of their app are riskier 00:19:14.800 --> 00:19:18.320 than the Mac App Store is willing to sell, right? 00:19:18.320 --> 00:19:19.840 Yeah. 00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:20.680 Yeah, they can be pretty, 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:21.920 yeah, Apple can be pretty. 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:24.960 Yeah, they do. 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.360 And in ways I'm kind of glad that they are. 00:19:27.360 --> 00:19:30.200 I'm just also happy that they offer another route 00:19:31.080 --> 00:19:32.720 for those who are interested in, 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.000 and I imagine the App Store was like for iPhones, 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.240 like you can only get your apps from that one spot. 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:42.880 Like people would go nuts if that was for Mac OS. 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:46.440 So I'm glad that they've offered at least, 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:49.600 or the ability to get stuff outside of the App Store. 00:19:49.600 --> 00:19:50.440 Yeah. 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:51.400 For Mac. 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:52.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.160 They tend to leave just enough leeway, 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:57.440 but also like maintain the integrity of the product, 00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:58.360 which is nice. 00:19:58.360 --> 00:19:59.400 Yeah, that's right. 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:00.280 Yeah. 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.000 Oh, cool. 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:02.000 Good. 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:03.000 Thanks, Mark. 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.000 Yeah, no problem. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:05.000 That's really great. 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.000 Yeah, really pleased. 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.960 And we'll stay in touch, and yeah, if anyone wants to reach me, you can reach out, obviously, 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:12.960 on the manuscripts-app.com. 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:20.920 Yeah, yeah, I'm going to, we'll post this interview on our website, I'll feature manuscripts 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:26.280 as link on the interview, and then I'll also send you a, I'll message you, and we can share 00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:27.720 any social media that you tend to use. 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.360 Do you use X or LinkedIn or anything like that? 00:20:30.360 --> 00:20:35.280 I don't, I use LinkedIn, I don't have an X account, but I probably should create one 00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:36.280 for the app, at least. 00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:37.640 Yeah, yeah, it's good for tech. 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:40.560 Yeah, yeah, if you want, I can feature you at the both of those links on the post. 00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:45.520 I'll probably get this posted probably Monday, maybe later today, but I'll be messaging you 00:20:45.520 --> 00:20:46.520 on. 00:20:46.520 --> 00:20:47.520 That sounds great. 00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:48.520 Thanks again, Mark. 00:20:48.520 --> 00:20:49.520 All right. 00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:50.520 Have a great day. 00:20:50.520 --> 00:20:51.440 Take care.