Daniel Hunter — Zywire

Hey, Daniel.

Hey.

How you doing, man?

Doing good.

Thanks for joining.

Man, I was so sorry.

All the back and forth.

Yeah.

It's all good.

It happens.

It's all good.

No, yeah, I'm crazy busy with, like, different meetings and all that.

I'm just...

You get in, like, this, uh,

like, zone.

Not a flow state.

Yeah.

You get in a zone, and then you're like, "All right, meeting, work, another meeting, work."

Yes.

All right.

I, uh, I like the platform, my man.

I, um, I was looking at it, uh, earlier today, and I think it's a really, like, novel idea.

And-

I'm glad to hear that

Yeah, I mean, just happy to, to help however I can.

So.

Yeah, same to you, Ben.

Yeah, we're-- So we're, we're kind of featuring different founders.

Um-

Mm-hmm

...

we're growing in the, in the SF area.

We're adding about, like, 20 to 50 users a day, depending on the day.

Nice.

Um, mostly in SF.

Uh, we have some people, boots on the ground over there.

I'm in Arizona.

Um-

Nice.

Did you make it to-

I'm in LA.

You're in LA?

Okay.

Yeah.

You ever go to SF?

Yeah, yeah.

I was there,

uh, couple months ago.

Yeah, yeah.

It's, it's such a short flight.

It's like a 45-minute flight from, uh, from here.

Oh, yeah.

What's it cost?

Yeah.

What's that one?

Like, 100 bucks?

Um-

Not even?

Less than 100.

Round trip, it's, like, barely $100.

Yeah.

Oh, that's easy.

It's less than a tank of gas right now.

Yes.

Yeah.

Exactly.

That's cool.

Uh, so yeah, I, I haven't added an account yet, but, um,

I can.

I, I burned through all of my usage on Groqbot.

Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Uh, and so I was like, I, I'm, I'm getting a reset tomorrow.

Um, so I think I can take it for a spin, uh, there.

I can also...

I just got access to,

uh, Claude Do It.

Um, so I can do it there as well.

How'd you do that?

I saw that article, but I didn't get into the, uh...

They didn't put my name on it.

They just sent me an email to--

They just emailed me, like, "You're off the wait list." I don't know.

Damn, I like you more-- They like you more than me.

That's messed up.

Do you have a Max subscription?

Yeah, I do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nah, I don't know, man.

I'll check.

I'll check.

I'll check.

I just got it this morning, though.

Yeah.

There's still hope.

I-- Yeah, yeah.

I just got it this morning, and then a buddy of mine got access last week, so

I don't know.

Yeah.

He got it last week?

What?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

He texted me the day after the announcement.

I was like, "How the hell did you get it so fast?"

It's so funny, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I got like GPT Max, Claude Max.

Can we just like, like...

I just need to, like, verbal-- Like, how is it, like, in a month we went from, like, Claude being the most, the easiest one to burn through your limits to, and now we're back-

Mm-hmm

...

to GPT being the fastest one to chuck through all your limits.

Like, what happened?

Like, that-- They did a rug pull on us, right?

They did.

And then, of course, OpenAI announced yesterday that they're doubling, or maybe it was today, they're doubling usage for all of their plans.

Oh, there we go.

Uh, Claude did that.

Uh, Claude did something similar a couple times.

They tweaked it.

They did the promo limits and all that.

Okay, so now it's balancing out.

This is, this is permanent.

Yeah, this is permanent.

So they're trying to catch up.

Yeah.

Um, it's, it's weird, man.

We can't keep up.

I mean, to be honest, I think what matters the most

that people don't talk about is the user experience, right?

If you,

if you think about how easy it is for these companies to catch each other-

Mm-hmm

...

what you should focus on is the UX, because the underlying model will catch up to whatever's the hot thing, right?

So everyone was using Codex for, for a while, and then Opus 5.5 came out, and-

Yeah

...

everyone switched back to Claude.

Yeah.

But OpenAI's gonna catch up.

And so it's like you just have to decide

what UX, what user experience you prefer, right?

Because the model,

the models will get better or worse, or better or worse over time, and-

Yeah

...

it's silly to keep chasing, keep model chasing.

Yeah.

Um,

yeah.

You do a Whack-a-Mole, and then Groq kind of started to do this orchestration stuff in the platform.

So, like, there's that interesting thing.

I'm gonna get into local.

Yeah, so-

I mean...

Yeah, no, keep going.

This is like, this is great.

No, I, I, I'm a huge fan of, of Groqbot because of the UX, and the connections.

They, they, the, the UX around connections and also

the integration with Cursor, it's so good.

As a developer,

um,

I have yet to find a better,

um,

experience for building software as, like, a solo,

uh, contributor.

Now, if I'm on a team, that's different, but if I'm just building stuff on my own for fun or side projects or, uh, if you're talking about solopreneurs who are building, there's no better,

uh, experience.

It's, it's remarkable.

Um, and I, I mean, I've never built so quickly, so efficiently.

Uh-huh.

Um,

and so I'm just gonna stick with Groqbot even though

Groq's models aren't nearly as good as OpenAI or Anthropic.

That was gonna be my next question.

Like, Groq 4.7 is, is, is...

Groq 4.7 is trash compared to

Opus 5.5 and OpenAI's models.

Mm-hmm.

But there is a workaround.

What do you got?

The workaround is

you can use D- Devin CLI-

Oh, nice

...

inside of Groqbot.

So I've been doing that, uh, so I can use better models, but still keep the developer experience, the UX, user experience that I, I love.

Fun.

So I installed Devin CLI

in, on Groqbot's computer,

and I'm literally running Opus inside of Groqbot.

Um, are they charging you API tokens?

Like, uh, Claude API tokens?

I'm-- No, no, 'cause I...

Well,

um, their fusion model

uses a mixture of the best frontier models, and it's their own secret sauce, but I've talked to

folks at Cognition, and it's mostly Opus 5.5.

That Devin CLI is using?

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

And,

um, it's using Opus 5.5 for

all of the planning work.

Mm-hmm.

And then it's using a cheaper model for the actual implementation, and then the review and QA happens with Opus.

So it's like this kind of,

um-

Bookkeeping

...

the classic pattern, right, where you have the smart model doing the hard lifting and thinking, and then you have the cheaper models, like, writing the code.

Yeah.

And that's worked pretty well.

Like agent hando- agent model handoff, whatever.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I always combine the work that way, too.

Man, I gotta get on Groq.

It's really good.

So good, dude.

Yeah.

'Cause you can ask simple stuff-

You have these Groq getting...

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, uh,

there-- I'll show you, show you a few things.

So,

um,

let me share my screen.

So this is, this is the main thing that I'm working on called, called Zywire.

And basically, it's like a Bloomberg termin- Bloomberg Terminal for Twitter.

Mm-hmm.

And so I have these panels where you can kinda choose your own adventure.

And so if you're trying to keep up with everything that's happening in tech on a daily basis, it's very difficult, right?

Oh, yeah.

Uh, and so what did we just talk about?

The OpenAI limits.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

So that's like, oh, that's the headline for today.

So you can drill into that.

Uh, and of course, people talks about, like, this.

Um, and

then instead of scrolling, you can just hit the space bar and just cycle through-

Oh, nice

...

like, all the kind of events for the day.

Um, and it's just, like, a better experience.

Of course, I have clicks to bring up thumbnails.

Uh, but

that's been really fun.

Um, and then-

Yeah

...

one of, I think the,

the most valuable features is being able to time travel.

So right now, this is set to April 29th.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but you can go back.

Like, what happened on February 5th?

Oh, Opus 4.6.

4.6.

So, like, if you're just like-

Like, a million years ago.

Right.

So you're trying to figure out, like, what happened on this day on Tech Twitter.

Yeah.

You can go back in time and just, like, kind of get a sense of what was going on back then.

Um, so that's a really popular feature.

Um, and then, like, just general sentiment, so you can kinda see, like, what are people saying about Opus 5.5.

Um, mostly positive sentiment, and then you can kind of see a general commentary.

You can see what the gripes are.

Um,

and,

um,

what is really important is, like, I'm only f- I'm only following,

like, a subset of-

Uh-huh

...

the industry.

Like, so it's a, a focused, kind of opinionated view of what's happening in the industry.

You're not getting this fire hose from, like...

Like, if you, if you just ask Groq, like-

Yeah

...

what's happening in tech today, you get a very general, boring answer.

Um, you-

And it's like, yeah, their default algorithm's kinda weird.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It kind of will just, it gets slanted weird, man.

It's not...

I don't like it.

Yeah.

So, so yeah, this is all-- I've run all this,

uh, via GroqBot.

Um, and then, you know, uh, if you wanna kinda play around with the news,

I have this view where it's literally the same data-

Mm-hmm

...

but, like, it's just, like, a fun way to kind of get through the news, so you can just, like, play through the top stories of the day.

So, like, every, every 10 seconds it just go, it jumps to the next story.

Um-

Ah

...

and you can pause at any time.

Yeah, yeah.

You can pause and just, like, read the summary.

You can get the actual original post.

So this links out to the original post, and you can open it on X.

Um, so I'm really building this, like,

uh, kind of ecosystem of,

like, different ways to consume the same information-

Mm-hmm

...

in a more efficient way,

in a way that's more fun, and not you just, like, swiping your thumb on Twitter all day.

Mm-hmm.

So it's like, all the data's there, but just, like, displaying it and communicating it in, in a different way.

Um, and you can just, like, again, just, like, for fun, just kind of, like, poke around.

Like Matt Palmer, he's at SpaceX.

Um,

you can kind of see, like, okay, what is happening with OpenAI today.

Um, so we kinda zoom in here.

Uh, you can see, like, when you click on this, you see all of the tweet.

These are...

Each node is a tweet

about OpenAI.

Mm-hmm.

And then you can literally just, like,

kind of poke around and see, like, all different topics and commentary about OpenAI, and this is just for today.

But your nodes are customized based off of the 300 or so sources that you're following, right?

Exactly.

It's all-

And then off of it-

It's all from this, from this, uh, profile subset.

Yep.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

That's super, super unique.

And,

um, and it's, it's been fun, man, to, like, I'm, like I said, running all of this through-

...

GroqBot, and if I have an idea for something, I'll just get on my phone and just, like,

like br- like speak a voice note

Yeah

It, it kicks off an agent,

and I have a, I have enough trust in the system where it just, like, there's a review process.

There's like a, a separate reviewer agent,

uh, that looks for bugs and tries to identify issues, and it just auto merges.

So like, I'll be like, "Hey, like I talked to this guy, Mark.

He said I should do X, Y, Z." Like, I'll just like speak into my phone-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

...

hit send, close my phone, and then it's like I'll know it'll be shipped in like 20 minutes.

It's like on prem-

That's so cool

...

in like 20 minutes.

It's so much smoother than like what I do with O- like I, I have my computer running, and then I'm doing-

Mm-hmm

...

the codec, Codex to mobile, and then it's running locally on my device, and that's how I'm doing this is I'm like, you know-

Yeah

...

taking calls, running around, whatever, but then Groq already went ahead and pushed everything to the cloud, so you don't have to deal about that like infrastructure nuance.

Yep.

Yep, and there's so many moments, man, where I get inspired,

and I'm just not at my computer,

you know?

Yeah, usually.

Usually you're not.

Usually-

Usually not, yeah.

As soon as you step away.

Yeah, and so now I don't have to like...

I can just like, I can just pause, bam, and then it's just, it's just done.

Um, and it'll grab screenshots and, and drop it in the chat too.

So it'll like...

'Cause everything's on Vercel, so it'll like,

it'll look at the preview builds in Vercel, grab screenshots, pull that into your session,

and share that in the chat.

Um-

Mm-hmm

...

so that I can kind of see what it looks like without even going to production.

Mm-hmm.

So like-

And get feedback on those

...

it's, if I'm, if I'm not at my computer, I just look at my phone, and I want to see what the desktop view looks like.

Yeah.

Then it'll drop those screenshots in the chat, the desktop view screenshots.

I'm like, "Okay, I think this is cool." I don't even have to be at a desktop to make sure that it's fine.

Yeah.

So like those little like

kind of like, uh, experiences, uh, really add up.

They're all these small little things

that you don't realize how much you miss them until they're gone.

Yeah.

Um, like, like today, 'cause I'm out of usage.

Yeah.

Now you're back on Codex, and you're like-

Yeah.

...

"Man, I gotta be at my desktop for this and this and this."

Yeah.

I'm like, I'm like dying over here, man.

I'm like, oh my God, like I can't wait, uh, to get reset, you know?

But that just proves your point, man, that you, uh, the user experience is gonna be the most important part.

Whether the models or whatever, you know-

Mm-hmm

...

is gonna go in this cycle.

But the UI-

Exactly

...

that user experience of like how easy is it for people to, to use this to ship

or to use this-

Mm-hmm

...

to do certain research chains.

Yeah.

Whatever your top...

Yeah.

Yeah, whatever.

Automate, automate things.

GroqBot did that too.

They put orchestration in and all of that.

Yeah.

A lot easier to do with them.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so I have a, I have one GroqBot per

like,

um...

I call these microsites.

Um,

and I have like one bot per site, and that's kind of how I have it laid out.

So if I'm doing something for Zywire, I just go to that agent.

I just go to that bot,

and, um, it's solely focused on that.

And then Zygraph is another bot.

Um, and I like that kind of separation of concerns, and it's been really easy to

manage.

Um,

now, like I said, if I, if I'm running a small startup,

I don't know if I would use GroqBot as much, um,

'cause like the multiplayer side of GroqBot hasn't really been fleshed out.

They haven't really focused on that much.

I'd probably still use Slack, if I'm being honest, for like this.

As the integrating?

Yeah.

I'd probably be running Devin inside of Slack.

Yeah.

And-

I mean-

...

if I had, if I was collaborating with like three or four other engineers.

Yeah.

I mean, even the Codex to Codex or the Claude to Claude isn't like great.

Like, we have our own internal network that we built for that, and then we'll just ping each other back and forth, and you, you know, that would tie it in with GitHub to get-

Mm-hmm

...

PRs or signals.

But even that's like a big gap with-

Mm

...

how...

That's a little bit of what we're trying to do too with HiRey, is kind of like multiplayer.

Um, you know, use MCP server, carry AI connected.

Okay, your use case for AI this time is networking.

Uh, let's do multiplayer ChatGPT,

and they haven't gotten there yet.

Seems like a big gap.

Yes.

I, I agree.

Um,

what is-

It's a program

...

what is your goal with, uh, with HiRey?

I'm just curious, like what are you, what are you guys trying to achieve really?

Networking.

Networking through an MCP or networking through agent mediated networking would be kind of like the tagline for it.

So

a lot of people...

I'm not, I'm not 30 yet, but I noticed a lot of people, like in their 20s, they don't really like LinkedIn so much anymore.

Mm-hmm.

It's kind of like what I, what I'm finding.

Mm-hmm.

So, and then you have X, which is good for consuming content, keeping up to date on the news, uh, things like that.

Reddit's good for other types of like, you know, these specialized niche use cases.

You wanna dig deep into a specific topic and like actually get responses from people,

Reddit's good for that.

Mm-hmm.

But I think the gap is there's not a lot of platforms that are focused on like making a connection-

Yeah

...

and that's what HiRey wants to do.

I mean, LinkedIn used to be a little better for that, I feel like.

Turned into like the recruitment thing or whatever, but it's not really...

I don't find LinkedIn great.

Like if I want to talk with somebody like you, like your- Really kind of at the cutting edge of AI, uh, developer tech focus.

Like, if I want to connect with people like that, um, be it to just have a chat like this, talk about what you're building, or if I want to find people that match my kind of profile to, like, go play tennis on the weekends, there's not a lot of platforms that I could use to help do that.

There's Meetup, right?

And there's LinkedIn.

Yeah.

I don't particularly like either of those platforms.

I think that's what-

Yeah

...

HiRey's trying to do.

That's cool, man.

Um-

Yeah.

I, I think there's definitely a gap in the market for it.

Uh,

um, I think,

mm...

I-- Well, you know what's funny?

Is I do think

this is incredibly useful and

has a clear space

in the industry.

I do feel like the-- even in tech, most people are still

not far, not as far along as, as you might think.

And so

I, I do feel like, like X is kind of a, a bubble, but there are bubbles inside of the bubble, where it's like you're so,

like, locked in.

Yeah.

And clearly you guys are, that you almost fail to realize that

people haven't even gotten used to these personal agents yet.

No, that's still new.

Like, I'm really used to-

Yeah.

We were used to that, like, six months ago, three months ago, I think.

Right.

And people still haven't arrived.

Yeah.

People in the industry, people in, in tech, people that I work with.

Yeah.

People that I've worked with in the past.

Like, I've been in the industry for, you know, 13 years now, and so--

and I've worked at a lot of different companies, and I'm telling you, like, the majority of people I know who are engineers, who are designers, who've worked in this, in this ind- industry

haven't arrived yet.

That's crazy.

The majority of them.

And so we're, like, we're building these use cases for

agents to act on behalf of their, their owners,

and I think that's fantastic, but it's also important to

do the education and the onboarding to the agents themselves.

Uh-huh.

And not just focus on

the actual,

um,

like, layer on top of these agents.

I, I think it's gonna be really important for you guys to focus on the zero to one

with-

Uh-huh

...

human and agent,

as well as the use case for HiRey.

What, what do you mean by that?

So what I mean is, if someone has toyed around with

GroqBot or,

uh, Duet or Dot or Instinct, right, but they haven't really incorporated it into their, their daily life.

If it's not really-

Wow

...

a habit, you wanna, you wanna make sure you're making,

uh, it obvious why these agents would be like a habitual kind of thing to engage with.

Yeah.

Because so many people haven't figured that out yet.

Yeah, but they-

And that's where I feel like-- No.

And that's where I feel like-

Yeah

...

the huge opportunity is for you guys, is like, really-

Yeah

...

and anyone in this space, really, who's building these tools for agents, is making sure that you're not

forgetting the majority of people are behind.

They are.

They are.

You know?

I mean, I was so unsurprised when, when GPT Dots came out.

I couldn't even, like, express it.

I was like, "Oh, Dots came out.

Yeah, like, of course." Like, I was waiting for that.

Like, fucking finally, finally.

Yes.

Now I don't have to do all these workarounds to get this done.

Like, finally, you guys just put it in the app for me.

But then other people-

Mm-hmm

...

are, like, you know.

Mm-hmm.

They're not-- They haven't hit the adoption stage yet.

It's a good point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, and it, it seems like you guys are doing just fine, but, uh, just keep that in mind.

That's all.

That's my only advice.

No, we're early.

No, you're right.

We are early.

That's kind of the other thing is like, okay, we're in October, we started doing, like, we started doing that fir- agent media networking,

um, really when AI agents were only Hermes and OpenClau.

Mm-hmm.

And at that point, it was such a pain to get OpenClau set up.

You had the whole Mac Mini thing happening and blah, blah, blah, and now we're at Dots now, six months later.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So what do the next six months look like?

I really-- I don't know, man.

My, my, my other co-founder, our, our primary founder, he, he's got a good thumb on the pulse, I think, but I can't, I can't guess what the next six months look like.

I don't know.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, I do feel like

you're, you're going to see,

um,

like,

probably an avalanche.

I don't know, I don't know what the catalyst is gonna be.

It maybe it is Duet, um, because it's, it's in, it's research preview right now.

Um, but when it's like, when there's a general release, general availability release for Duet,

um,

coin- if that coincides with

Anthropic's IPO-

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

...

that might be the moment where it's like, oh, all these people that I, I just described, who I've worked with and aren't using agents, they're all, like,

heavy users of Claude.

And so

as, as soon as the, the most popular,

like, lab has its agent out there for everyone to use, and it's just, like, there for them to

consume, I feel like that might be a huge moment for these

agent

Agent first kind of interfaces and, and, and products.

Um,

because I feel like,

I think Dots was kind of a flop.

Uh, Muse is

very targeted on, like, Meta's ecosystem.

And

GroqBot, a lot of people don't wanna use even though it's amazing because-

Mm-hmm

...

they don't like Yon.

Mm-hmm.

So there's a lot of people who are just like, "You know what?

I don't wanna deal with this guy." Um, and

so they don't wanna

buy into the GroqBot ecosystem.

And so I think there is an opportunity, uh,

just like sitting there for Anthropic to come in and, like, really crush it with Duet.

And then, and then the floodgates might open up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It could be a home run.

Mm-hmm.

The security concern is what got me with Muse, man.

That was the th- I know-

Yes

...

most people prob- most people aren't gonna care over that, but I'm like, okay, this is my WhatsApp.

I get spam stuff all, you know, we all, everybody in tech see, you know, you see phishing emails day in, day out or whatever, and then it's like, oh, you want full, you wanna give my WhatsApp

full discreet access and its own agent.

No, thanks.

How, how long till my social security's out there?

Like, I don't know, man.

I couldn't, I couldn't swallow that, man.

I couldn't-

Yeah

...

swallow that as, as a necessity for running it on a basic level.

I totally see the value to, like, not, not letting it have that and then, uh, just letting it, you know, letting the agent run things out of your WhatsApp or schedule whatever, whatever the heck you wanna do with it, but that full discreet access,

couldn't do it.

Couldn't do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Where do you think price-

Yeah.

Where do you think price go?

I gotta get your read on this.

I gotta get your read on this.

Where do you think pri- so price, like, where everybody-

Mm-hmm

...

if you really wanna use these platforms now, you pretty much need the max.

If you're using them in tech like how we are, like, you're actively building it, I feel like you need the max plan, so you gotta get the $100 a month plan.

Yeah.

Six months ago, $20 a month plan can kinda get you where you're going.

One-

Mm-hmm

...

do you see price going up more?

And then two, with the additional context today, you, I'm assuming you're up to date on it, but you have, like, the CapEx kind of spending-

Mm-hmm

...

market today, just, just today, man, yeah, yesterday, uh, Amazon and Google are down, like, 10% each or something like that.

Intel's down, like, 10% today.

What do you see, what do you, what do you think about all that?

I think that's a reaction to

the elections that are coming next week.

Mm-hmm.

So I think

this is a,

like, kind of

macroeconomic, uh, hedge-

Mm-hmm

...

uh,

to the election, the midterm elections next Tuesday.

Mm-hmm.

So I wouldn't be surprised that there was, like, a, a huge dip, um, in the market.

You could, depending upon what happens on Tuesday, you could see it bounce, uh, back, or you could see it drop considerably lower.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Uh, so you know, no one really knows which is why this happened in the first place.

That's my opinion.

Yeah.

Um, I think it has less to do with the AI bubble and more to do with just, like, the political, like, cycles.

Um, there's always a big dip before midterm and general elections in the US.

Um.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not surprised there.

I, I think price,

I think price stabilizes.

I don't, I don't see it going up.

I definitely don't see it going down.

Um,

if anything,

I see,

um,

it going up

because of

their, like, market share becoming more dispersed.

So, like, if you think about

how easy it's becoming for companies like Notion to run cheaper models and provide a really good experience.

Um,

like how many people who...

Like Notion has so many users.

It's like, how many people are gonna get by with just using Notion?

What if Notion releases their own agent?

Do you like how they integrated these models in there?

I don't, I don't love it.

I really-

No, no

...

wanna love it.

I wanna love it-

Yeah

...

'cause I'm like, dude, it makes so much sense to have my Notion-

Yeah

...

tightly integrated with my agents, but I haven't cracked that, that yet.

No, but-

Did you crack it?

Yeah.

No.

I, I, I, I, no.

I will say though,

they've hired some of the s- like-

Yeah

...

smartest designers, like, that I respect.

Uh-

Absolutely

...

and s- like, over the past year, so I feel like they are trending towards figuring a lot of this out, and I think it, things have gotten better.

Still not anywhere near where it needs to be.

Um, but

I, just from the talent they've,

uh,

basically

been able to consume, I think they're gonna get there.

Um, but I, I just bring that up because

they have a lot of trust and a lot of users, and so, and they can get away of running cheap models.

So it's like

if you, going back to your point about having to ne- having to have a max plan, maybe I don't.

If Notion releases an agent and it's really damn good, and they're charging me-

25

...

$50 a month-

Yeah

...

25 to 50, then I might cancel my max plan.

N-not me personally-

Yeah

...

'cause I, 'cause I'm a, 'cause I build stuff.

But, like, if I'm just a creator, a content creator, I might cancel the max plan from Claude and just use Notion.

Um, so if anything, I feel like Anthropic and OpenAI will increase

prices because they'll be, they'll lose users, and so they're gonna try and make more money from the people that remain.

Um,

um-

But I, I don't see that happening anytime soon, to be honest.

Yeah.

I think it's gonna be pretty flat.

They're not gonna drop users.

No, not, not quite yet.

Not anytime soon.

Not, not at this moment.

No.

Yeah.

Now, fast-forward a year from now, again-

Yeah

...

like, like I said, you think about the talent that Notion has acquired.

Yeah.

The, the trajectory that they're on,

the cost of,

like, open weight models or the improvement of open weight models, and the cost of models going down.

A year from now, I could totally see them having a,

a killer, like, personal agent.

That's what they got everyone to.

I totally see that.

It was a pretty-- it's a pretty bad personal agent.

Of the personal agents that we've seen, No- I don't know.

I, I don't wanna rip on it.

Mm.

Still a great product, but, like, I d- I, I don't like how they integrated the personal agent with it.

I don't, I don't...

Especially there's...

Yeah, but you're right.

You give it a, give 'em a year.

Who knows what they're gonna do?

Give 'em a year.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so I, uh, think about, I think about Notion, I think about Slack.

Uh, there's a huge opportunity for Slack to figure something out on their own.

And we still haven't seen a competitor to Slack, really.

No.

Yeah.

There's nothing.

It's kinda weird.

Right?

Salesforce bought...

Right, so that was a good buy by Salesforce.

That was a really good buy by Salesforce.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Um-

But no one's competed.

That's crazy.

Yeah, it is weird.

I mean, I'm really, I'm racking my brain right now as we're talking.

I mean, there's nothing.

There's, yeah, there's nothing at all.

Oh, well, there's, there is one called...

It's not in the Western market, though.

There's a good one called Lark.

Uh, we, uh-

Ooh

...

we had some Chinese investors, so they decided to go with Lark, 'cause over in Asia they like to use that.

Yeah.

Lark is, Lark is sick.

Lark is sick.

Mm-hmm.

But it hasn't reached the We- the West yet.

Okay.

Interesting.

The API-

Mm-hmm

...

doesn't integrate as cleanly or, or as openly with, uh, GPT or whatever, but you know what I mean.

Like, if you-

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

They...

You just custom code something if you really wanted to get it done.

The, uh...

That's a cool name.

Yeah.

But yeah, that's, that's really it, man.

Um...

Lark is like if Notion and Slack had a baby.

There you go.

Gotcha.

The minimalist design.

Oh.

I already like it.

That's like, kind of a pitch, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You, you had me at minimalist.

Yeah.

I mean, we're really kinda, you know, kinda like you said, like X has its bubble.

Like in the West, man, we have a pretty solid bubble around ourselves too, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's definitely like the, the bubble of kinda the world, I guess.

With like, you know, the SF is technological dominance is still-

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah

...

and just views and-

It's crazy.

Yep.

Yeah.

It's insane.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

Well, man, I'm gonna have to, I have to run soon, but anything else I can help with?

Um-

If you wanna, I, I'd love to check...

I wanna check out your X platform.

I totally wanna try that.

I wanna get that on my X.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna...

If you got the download link on your profile, I'm gonna hop on there.

I'll pe- message you if I have any thoughts on it.

I'll send you a link after this.

Uh, I'll give you the, the link to this recording on Drive.

Mm-hmm.

I'll send you a link to claim your HiRey profile.

If you wanna hop in HiRey, uh, give it a whirl.

If there's anybody you're looking to connect with as, uh, as you're growing.

I don't...

We didn't talk too much about that, but is there like a profile of person that you'd like to connect with, like investors or socialize or specific sets of AI users?

Definitely writers.

Right?

Writers.

Writers.

So the, so the-

Yeah

...

the, the ICP for, for these products, um, like, uh, are writers.

Huh.

Yeah, so-

That's wild.

Yeah, it's because you think about, like,

how much sourcing they have to do all the time.

Yeah.

And so, like, that is kind of a, like part of the, the, the value prop is like helping people do sourcing more efficiently.

Yeah.

And I have a lot of like,

um,

like prompts and kind of skills that people can use with their agents to, like, leverage

the platform inside of Claude or inside of, um, you know, GroqBot or whatever agent they're using, um, to help them with sourcing and, and to monitor trends and, uh, to fact-check things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, so they're like, "Hey, did this person say this on this day?" And it's like, well, you can look at the historical record on the platform and try and find out.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

We have some academic writers on the platform.

I interviewed a couple people that were into academia.

Mm-hmm.

I, I think your version of writer is more like along the journalist or, or thought leader-

Yeah, more, more so journalist.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ask, ask the agent, man.

You can ask it if you're a...

If you're an AI, "Hey, do you have any writers on the platform?" Um-

Yeah

...

let me know if it, if it gives you a hit or not, and then I'll keep you in mind.

Okay.

And if I talk with any writers, uh, kind of in my journeys, I'll, I'll send them your way or I'll recommend your, your, your product at least, your project.

Yeah.

Thank you so much, man.

Appreciate it, man.

Yeah, send me a link.

Good job, Daniel.

All right.

Cool, man.

All right.

Take care.

I'll talk to you later.

Have a great day.

See ya.

Bye.

You too.

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